293 replies to this topic

[Celtic Fan]

and that's one of the biggest issues, the owners are not united and can't agree on what they actually want in this deal they're offering the players. Until they're all agreed upon a good offer that the players will consider, this thing is not getting done.

[Jessie Styen]

Threaten to kick the Utah's and Indiana's out of the league, that will make these guys conform. The reason why these teams cannot make money is because they're run by millionaire and not billionaires and have small fan bases. Having teams in these small cities is just a bad business model. Look at the NFL, all their cities are huge. Green Bay is small but it has Milwaukee and the greater Wisconsin area. The NBA and MLB which are seen as the least profitable of the leagues and the one who is least competitive both have tons of teams in small markets. Which is why the elite teams stay elite and the small market teams are farm clubs.

[Boomshakalaka]

That is a terrible idea and it isnt the small markets in the NBA which bring it down. It's the large markets who operate stupidly. Since 2000 who have been the worst teams in the NBA? New York, Chicago, Washington, Clippers and Atlanta. All large markets. Yet the Spurs are one of the smaller markets and them and Lakers have a combined 8 titles in that period. What do the Spurs and Lakers have in common? They're both run really well.

Changing all this wont matter, those teams who are run well will continue to succeed while those who arent will fail.

[Redneck]

Labor talks between the NBA and players union are set to resume Saturday, in yet another attempt to end the lockout by agreeing to a new collective bargaining agreement.

Last Friday, the sides broke off negotiations with the owners maintaining an offer of 50% and the players insisting on a share of 52.5% of basketball-related income.

The union met Thursday to regroup and, presumably, formulate its endgame strategy. Afterward, Roger Mason confirmed the Saturday bargaining session with the league and stated that the players are completely unified.



Read more: http://basketball.re...y#ixzz1cgLkbB10

[Redneck]

Roger Mason emerged from Thursday's meeting of the union executive committee and said leadership is "absolutely" unified.

Mason confirmed that the union will meet with the NBA on Saturday to resume negotiations.

Rumors of a splinter between Derek Fisher and Billy Hunter have dominated much of the news coverage this week.

"I stand behind D-Fish," said Mason. "We're behind him 100 percent."

Mason also said that many of the system issues are still under negotiation and that a deal is not 95% done as reported by the New York Times.

"It's about much more than 50 or 52 or whatever. There's still a system that hasn't been addressed."



Read more: http://basketball.re...d#ixzz1cgM9EPYV

[Redneck]

Two conference calls with as many as 50 NBA players and an anti-trust attorney were held on Tuesday and Thursday discussing the decertification of the union, according to sources. Several of the NBA's most prominent agents were proponents of the call, said sources.

The calls, which took place without the knowledge of NBPA officials, included several All-Stars.

“We’re beyond frustrated with the concessions that have already been made,” one source on the calls told Yahoo! Sports. “If the union gives in on the [basketball-related income] split and the open system issues don’t go to the players side, decertification may be the next step.”

If the NBPA drops below 52% of BRI and the system issues favor the players, the movement to decertify will go forward.

While the call seems to undermine Derek Fisher and Billy Hunter, the intent was more to create a viable threat to the owners.

The very threat of decertification is a strategy in and of itself, as it creates the potential for uncertainty and potential chaos for the owners.

“This is not about Hunter and Fisher,” a source on the calls said. “The players want to know how to push the needle here. If talks this weekend, don’t produce 52 percent, they want to know what options they have.”



Read more: http://basketball.re...r#ixzz1ckRreecd

[Jessie Styen]

I honestly have no hope for these talks. Its like they dont want to solve this problem.

[Redneck]

Michael Jordan has been revealed as one of the leaders of hardline owners that is seeking no more than a 50/50 split of basketball related income for players.

A source tells Alan Hahn that Jordan isn't just leveraging against players, but big market owners as well. The thinking is that small market owners will be more willing to make a deal with the players if greater revenue sharing is involved.

Adrian Wojnarowski writes Saturday's gathering of NBA owners will deal as much with their own infighting on revenue sharing at it will with the battle against the players on system issues and BRI.



Read more: http://basketball.re...g#ixzz1cnU2rCPu

[Redneck]

In response to a radio interview by former Knicks and Jazz president Dave Checketts, several members of the media have reported that sources say no agreement has been formally reached.

"Person in the room assures me that no agreement has been reached," writes Ken Berger. "They're about to hit the five-hour mark here in New York."

Kate Fagan of the Philadelphia Inquirer spoke with a more optimistic source.

"Not yet, we have to cross T's and dot I's," said Fagan's source. "Right there though. You know how these things go. On route to getting it done, but anything could blow it up."

A source has told Yahoo's Adrian Wojnarowski that no framework of deal has been proposed to owners.

A player source told Sports Illustrated's Sam Amick that there is no agreement.

"Not at all (true)," said the source. "We have yet to discuss our positions at all."



Read more: http://basketball.re...e#ixzz1dLR2EX7v

[Redneck]

One particular concession from the owners made on Wednesday night broke off the talks 'in a good way', according to a source.

Sam Amick reports that he has "been hearing through NBA backchannels since after meeting last night that it would get done."



Read more: http://basketball.re...s#ixzz1dLRGB8j5

[Boomshakalaka]

I wonder what it was?

[Redneck]

The NBA and NBPA have wrapped Thursday's meeting, with the owners presenting a new offer.

"On a couple of the issues, there was some revision from the proposal we saw before," said Derek Fisher.

"At this time it's not enough to entice us to finish this out tonight," said Fisher.

Billy Hunter said the response from the player reps will indicate where the union stands on the new offer. That meeting may not happen until early next week, according to Hunter.

Hunter also said that there are approximately 30 to 40 secondary issues that still need to be resolved.

Hunter said he and Fisher asked Stern to allow them to review the deal with their player representatives.

"It's not the greatest offer in the world," said Hunter, but he feels like he needs to present this offer to the player reps.

One player representative seemed to indicate to Adrian Wojnarowski a reluctance that the meeting will be productive.

"Why do they keep scrambling us to New York for these meetings when they never listen to us?" said the source. "We told them not to go past 53 percent. They did. We told them we're not taking this deal. Why waste our time?"



Read more: http://basketball.re...s#ixzz1dPi00hxh

[Redneck]

One source from the players side issued an 'ominous warning' to ESPN's Marc Stein about the latest proposal from the owners.

"Nothing was addressed," said the source. "It's same offer as it was before."

The source expects the offer to be rejected.

Marc Berman of the New York Post reports that Billy Hunter told him that there was very little difference in the new deal.

One union source gave Newsday's Alan Hahn an even bleaker picture about the offer.

"It may have gotten worse. It's debatable."



Read more: http://basketball.re...d#ixzz1dPiFhvHU

[Redneck]

The new offer from the owners to the players includes a new $2.5 million exception.

It also will raise the minimum payroll for teams from its current level of 75% of the cap to 85%, according to Sports Illustrated's Chris Mannix.



Read more: http://basketball.re...p#ixzz1dPiTh200

[Redneck]

Sources tell Marc Stein that there is a growing desire amongst players and the "Super 7" agents to begin the decertification clock on Friday.

Several agents tell Adrian Wojnarowski that they have over 200 player signatures and that the petition will be filed on Friday.



Read more: http://basketball.re...y#ixzz1dPilIVdS

[Bonacus]

This whole thing is stupid. The owners need to offer something that is fair.

[Redneck]

Through its Twitter feed dedicated to labor talks with the union, the NBA office is disseminating information about its revised proposal for a new collective bargaining agreement.

If these statements are accurate, the new offer would appear to make a few further concessions to the players than have been reported so far.

Under the revised offer, the repeater tax would only apply against teams that go over the tax threshold four times in five years. Under the previous proposal, it was believed that the repeater tax would kick in for teams that paid the tax three times in five years.

In addition, projections for the luxury tax threshold would be between $70 million and $85 million over six seasons, after which both sides would hold an option to terminate the CBA.

The NBA also states that maximum salaries would range between $13 million and $19 million, presumably referring to the first-season salary of a max deal.



Read more: http://basketball.re...d#ixzz1dVmIvM3N

[Redneck]

More details of the NBA's revised offer to the union are emerging. Among them:

The minimum team salary would be 85 percent of the salary cap in the first two years and increase to 90 percent in the third year of the new collective bargaining agreement. This figure was 70 percent under the last CBA.

Full Bird rights would carry over to the new CBA and the league agreed to push annual raises under these contracts to 6.5 percent, up from 5.5 percent under the previous offer.

Players with contracts that are below the average salary would be eligible for opt-out clauses.

The league has also offered a new exception, of $2.5 million for up to two years, for teams that have less than $2.5 million of cap room.

Meanwhile, former super-agent David Falk believes the players must be allowed to vote on what the NBA has stated is its best offer.

“I think it would be a complete abdication of responsibility as agents for anyone to suggest that the players as a group shouldn’t vote on whatever the final proposal is,” Falk said.



Read more: http://basketball.re...g#ixzz1dVmzd4oZ

[Boomshakalaka]

So here is Judge Nelson's order that paraphrases the NLRB ruling stating that the NFL players discalimer was valid. Once again I'd quote directly the NRLB's ruling if I could find it but it doesn't appear to be online anywhere so this is the best we have to go off of for what the NLRB said in a pretty much identical situation. I've cleaned up some citations to make it easier to read

Identifying as a “threshold question” the issue of “whether the NFLPA remains the players’ collective-bargaining representative,” the General Counsel noted that the NFL contended that “the NFLPA’s disclaimer and reorganization is a sham and that management has acted properly in continuing to recognize the NFLPA as the incumbent union.” The General Counsel, however, concluded “that the disclaimer was valid,” and that “the NFLPA has not merely disclaimed representative status,” but also “restructured itself so that it no longer functions as a collective-bargaining agent.” Id. Accordingly, the General Counsel concluded that “the NFLPA is not a labor organization as defined in Section 2(5) of the Act,” and thus “there can be no Section 8(a)(2) violation since it cannot be said that the NFL has been attempting to deal with a ‘labor organization.’” Id. In the absence of a “labor organization,” the General Counsel stated that “[w]e conclude that the charge should be dismissed.” “In summary, we conclude that the allegation is without merit because the NFLPA has effectively disclaimed its representational rights and has converted itself from a Section 2(5) labor organization to a trade association.” see In re Cleveland Decals, Inc., (dismissing petition for decertification because “the Union’s unequivocal disclaimer of interest in the Employer’s employees cancels whatever vitality its certificate as bargaining representative might otherwise possess”); In re Federal Shipbuilding and Drydock Co., 77 N.L.R.B. 463 (1948) (dismissing petition for decertification and setting aside a previously issued “Direction of Election” after union disclaimed its status as exclusive bargaining representative of the employees because “to direct an election despite the Union’s disclaimer, would not only be a waste of Federal funds, but would also almost certainly mean” the Employer could “refuse to engage in collective bargaining with [any union]”).